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The view from the welfare state (re: New Orleans)
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bedtimeforbonzo



Joined: 13 Jun 2005
Posts: 24
Location: Way over here

PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:32 am    Post subject: The view from the welfare state (re: New Orleans) Reply with quote

I'm listening to the unfolding tragedy of the hurricaine, and what strikes me most (beside W's bizarre too little, too little late, almost apathetic recitation of the same old same old "rousing" applause words), are:

* It's the poor who were left behind: Where was the #¤%&/ planning to get them out in time???
* There had been a plan to get the levees ready for this kind of a storm and Bush's (figuratively) admin dropped the funding in order to fund his private oil war. -- Impeach the idiot, for idiot is what he is. His damn tax cut for the rich basically killed all these sort of high-priority projects.
* the refugee poor are almost being locked down! WTF?
* The segment of the looting that isn't about food/survival is a condemnation of decades and decades of estrangement, exclusion and willful neglect. There is a rage there that you wouldn't see here, PRECISELY BECAUSE OF THE WELFARE STATE!!! Citizens need a stake. Citizens need to feel integrated.
* the WELFARE STATEs here would never leave these people in the lucrh. These is social insurance here that would ensure that all persons are cared for. The impression I get from the US here is that its State expects charity and people's sense of stepping up to the plate to take over the role that the Welfare State here would have.

I am simply disgusted by how amatueristic, and aloof the whole US system is. The rich has been gorging on the pig troughs for decades, and the result is a laissez faire system. Of course the public will step up and help, the gov't will do what it can, but it never should have been this Keystone Koppy in the first place. The rich and connected have built up a system of dodging responsibility and we now see how many are left in the lurch, and I damn well know that they will do nothing else but hand out band-aids and just enough money to look good and/or appease what little conscience they might have.

The US has long needed to be more like Scandinavia, NZ, Canada, Germany etc.... Countries that even though the well-to-do do well, the system itself is not based on social Darwinism like the US is.

I felt hope for America in the Vietnam War days when it looked for a while that some effort to level the playing field might succeed. But with Ronnie Raygun, it's been a pig out, that has become a farce under Bush (previewed by the wing-nut attack on Clinton).

I'm in full rant, I know, but I don't care.

I am furious at America for its shoddy management, and now that the shit has hit the fan, the basic decentness of the average man and woman will come through. But for the state to rig the system so that is needed is time and time again--and never has to pay the price--is a failure of political will I just cannot fathom. How were Americans so crushed that it is still such a backward place when so many other nations have built systems that are much more inclusive.

Here's how it should be: OK the people stand up and fix this best as best they can, but in exchange it should be the last time. These Robber barons need to be tossed out in exchange, and let the Finns, Swedes and Norwegians set up the next American government.

I'm damned near ready to give up on the US and never look back. After I give to the American Red Cross, of course.

Sorry to rant, but for crying out loud. If I hear bush's whiny stupid voice one more time with his homilies, I'll spew.
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Frankenette



Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Posts: 3062

PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bonzer wrote:
I'm in full rant, I know, but I don't care.


Bonzo, and what a beautiful thing is you at full rant.... :wink:

Yes, the grownups sure have gotten us into another fine mess. :roll:

off-topic but yesterday I was reading an article comparing Hillary Clinton to Condoleeza Rice for President. One of the points in her favor was this: Condi is universally liked and her approval rating is more than the Presidents! (57%)

Um, exqueeze me? How is 57% "universally liked?"

I brought this up because the disconnect between what a lot of us feel in the US must be the same for expatriots. It is almost like half of the country refuses to see the writing on the wall. Confused I frequent a weather site where they have banned any political discussion. WTF?

I am ready to move. Anywhere.
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"Of all the varieties of virtues, liberalism is the most beloved." Aristotle
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complete



Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 24
Location: St. Louis, MO, USA

PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:08 pm    Post subject: Re: The view from the welfare state (re: New Orleans) Reply with quote

bedtimeforbonzo wrote:
(beside W's bizarre too little, too little late, almost apathetic recitation of the same old same old "rousing" applause words)


Aw. I don't know. At least he came on the tube and told people to get the heck out of there well before the storm hit. That was the best advice anyone could give.

We spend a lot of time looking for anything to kick him about, don't you think?
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Frankenette



Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Posts: 3062

PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:19 pm    Post subject: Re: The view from the welfare state (re: New Orleans) Reply with quote

complete wrote:
bedtimeforbonzo wrote:
(beside W's bizarre too little, too little late, almost apathetic recitation of the same old same old "rousing" applause words)


Aw. I don't know. At least he came on the tube and told people to get the heck out of there well before the storm hit. That was the best advice anyone could give.

We spend a lot of time looking for anything to kick him about, don't you think?


One does not have to LOOK for things.
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"Of all the varieties of virtues, liberalism is the most beloved." Aristotle
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bedtimeforbonzo



Joined: 13 Jun 2005
Posts: 24
Location: Way over here

PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Complete,

Not to rag on ya, or anything, but I'm a middle-aged egghead who used to teach physical geography at a very large Midwestern university. Thirty years ago hydrologists and geomorphologists were talking about the mess that is the Mississippi river flood-control system.

"Climate change", "global warming" and the "greenhouse effect" were well discussed phenomena in the scientific word, long before it broke through to the public awareness. Ah, hell, it's been in the news at one level or another as long I have been adult.

Cutting to the quick:

A Cat 4 hurricane hitting the US has been only a question of when, not if. And given global warming the impending punch just grows. It's technical, but the mechanisms are known.

So, a cat five is heading toward the US and "get out" is all Bush can say?
I guess our expectations for the guy are kinda rock bottom, aren't they?

How about getting the mobilization effect (trucks, food, troops, water etc...) packing and even rolling south, or ships made ready, all sorts of things EVEN AS THE STORM APPROACHES???

We knew the damned thing would hit somewhere, and the more scientific among us knew CAT 5 mean "Holy Shiiiiit!" But the Bush League is anti-science, so if they took any action at all, I'm sure prayer was the central component. "Dear God, Make it go away, Amen." or "Cantcha Hit Venezuela instead, buddy? Amen."

So as katrina approached it didn't even matter where along the coast it would hit. What mattered was that a response be ready. If nothing else and it missed the Mississippi River valley enough to leave no flooding, I'm sure the normal SNAFUs of a nonscheduled dry run would have been worth gold to learn for the next time.

Methinks it didn't happen for several reasons, not the least being lack of imagination and the compassion part of compassionate conservative.

The preparedness well was dry, the staff in the marshes of Southern Iraq, and the funds long since moved into certain bank accounts through the instrument of income-tax refund check and Hliiburton et al construction projects.

Now, just like Baghdad, where's the military to win the peace? Is Rummy going to come and talk about the looting with

Quote:
"The task we've got ahead of us now is an awkward one ... It's untidy. And freedom's untidy. And free people are free to make mistakes and commit crimes and do bad things. They're also free to live their lives and do wonderful things. And that's what's going to happen here," Rumsfeld said.


Once again a disaster was going on, and Bush was inside a sheltered spot, assumedly re-reading My Pet Goat. Now we'll see him charge into the leadership role a few days after the fact but well enough scripted to be remembered long afterward as a real take charge guy. Ah, the wonders of PR staff that knows where to place him for the getting his good side (PhotoShop).

Mr/Ms Complete, answer me this.

How many people died, and are dieing now, due to Dubya et al's laxity and inactivity and skimping in the last years? Now, if anyone of these is your family or dear friend, what's Bush's dillydallying worth to you?

Why let him off the hook?

AWOL In the TNG?
Getting a Houston coke-bust erased?
Getting one Gentleman's D after another to get through Yale?
Having one Poppy-buddy after another bail out one miserably managed company after another?
Getting DWI erased from from his Tex Driver's license?
Letting the Chem industry write law in Texas?
The Aug. 6 2000 "historical" memo?
The ignored State Dept's "win the Iraqi peace" planning?
Gutting more cautionary scientific reports than a Montana butcher guts mad cows?
Putting more foxes in the national chicken coops than Roger Ailes got slant?
Shoveling more slop that we paid for to his favored pork than Halliburton riles Muslims?

The guys's a nest-feathering, crony-padding incompetent puppet and you say, give him a break?

Tough love, my friend, tough love. This pseudo cow-punch should have been put in the front yard with a rake and a paper route at age 8 and charged room and board. Maybe had he actually grown up as a teen, he wouldn't be a case of arrested confused development with his lizard-skinned boots on the national back.

Have you ever heard him speak? He seems to think we gotta be told that gasoline comes from refineries, as if it's news. He is either as thick as a glacier or holds us in the worst contempt.
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Bob Dobalina



Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Posts: 6976
Location: My little grass shack in Kealakekua, Hawaii

PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This event is a canary in the mine shaft. When you see that an estimated thousand or more will die and hundreds of thousands will be refugees for a good long time to come you can imagine what will happen when a dirty bomb, for example, hits New York City instead of a Hurricane hitting Bumfuck Mississippi.
Quote:
Aw. I don't know. At least he came on the tube and told people to get the heck out of there well before the storm hit. That was the best advice anyone could give.

Free advise? Is that what the POTUS should be expected to provide in this situation? Do you realize that Bush slashed funding for the civil engineering project that would have prevented this whole scale destruction of new Orleans? And he did it so he could give tax breaks to the top 1% of the wealthy during war time. According to Paul Krugman not only has there never been a tax break during a war in US history, it's never happened before in any civilization in recorded history.
Quote:
One does not have to LOOK for things.

Exactly, Bush is an in your face radical extremist.
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"These are the facts." Facts? What country does he think he's talking to? Facts are to Americans as salads are to Americans. --The Rude Pundit
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complete



Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 24
Location: St. Louis, MO, USA

PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 4:27 pm    Post subject: Tsumani Reply with quote

Gelsana wonders why I gave as much money as I possibly could for the Tsunami victims and yet I seemed to be so completely unattached about this Katrina (and the waves) event.

Eventhough we (Gelsana and I) were both unemployed at the time, I gave a large amount to the Tsunami victims.

And yet, now I don't seem to care about this disaster in the Louisiana. She can't understand. She says "...and you were born here " (meaning the United States)

But I just cannot help not feeling sorry for someone who does not move out of the way of a category 5 hurricane. You know, there is no such thing as a category 6 hurricane. That should tell you something. That means, in this plane of reality that we exist in, it is impossible for there to be a stronger storm.

Should we fee badly also if someone does not move out of the way of a speeding run-away truck?

What am I missing here?
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Frankenette



Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Posts: 3062

PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some people had not the means to "move out of the way." Crying or Very sad
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"Of all the varieties of virtues, liberalism is the most beloved." Aristotle
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chickenhawkdown



Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Posts: 1644
Location: Watching Cspan so you don't have to.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frankenette wrote:
Some people had not the means to "move out of the way." Crying or Very sad


Exactly, the means and many of the sick and elderly. Blaming the victims that couldn't afford to leave is just wrong.
_________________
The GOP's plan for the poor and the middle class as translated by Carl Spackler: "Oh, uh, there won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consiousness."

Let them eat Jesus
http://wicked-stupid.blogspot.com/
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Bob Dobalina



Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Posts: 6976
Location: My little grass shack in Kealakekua, Hawaii

PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
But I just cannot help not feeling sorry for someone who does not move out of the way of a category 5 hurricane. You know, there is no such thing as a category 6 hurricane. That should tell you something.


That tells me more than I needed to know.
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"These are the facts." Facts? What country does he think he's talking to? Facts are to Americans as salads are to Americans. --The Rude Pundit
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complete



Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 24
Location: St. Louis, MO, USA

PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If there is a will, there is a way.
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Frankenette



Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Posts: 3062

PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

complete wrote:
If there is a will, there is a way.


I hope you never find yourself with no bootstraps to pull up, compassionate one. Rolling Eyes
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"Of all the varieties of virtues, liberalism is the most beloved." Aristotle
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complete



Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 24
Location: St. Louis, MO, USA

PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frankenette wrote:
Some people had not the means to "move out of the way." Crying or Very sad


How true is this, really?

Wasn't the Salvation Army going door to door?
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Bob Dobalina



Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Posts: 6976
Location: My little grass shack in Kealakekua, Hawaii

PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

complete wrote:
If there is a will, there is a way.


Really? Are you sure about that? That's kind of a trite and not a little callous thing to say about people who just had their world turned upside down in the worste catostrphic cotastrophe in US history.
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"These are the facts." Facts? What country does he think he's talking to? Facts are to Americans as salads are to Americans. --The Rude Pundit
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chickenhawkdown



Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Posts: 1644
Location: Watching Cspan so you don't have to.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

complete wrote:
If there is a will, there is a way.


Your compassion is underwhelming.
_________________
The GOP's plan for the poor and the middle class as translated by Carl Spackler: "Oh, uh, there won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consiousness."

Let them eat Jesus
http://wicked-stupid.blogspot.com/
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